Is the purpose of politics to receive a "hand out"?
The purpose of politics is to receive a "hand out" in some form or fashion through the individual you vote to represent you. Why would someone vote for someone that inherently does not have their best interest in mind? That is a general question, not specific to one party or another.
For example, why would the Christian Right vote for a extremely liberal democrat that it is going to counter ever belief they hold dear through public policy that attacks the premise of their faith?
So they instead vote for what? Someone who is going to best (or the lesser of two evils) serve what they hold as important, and who will "hand out" through public policy things which they think they as a block need and want.
That is the nature of politics, yet somehow we imply blacks are off for doing the same thing. For example, virtually the same percentage of blacks were Republican pre-New Deal, due to the fact that Lincoln was Republican and it was the party that lead the chrarge to eliminate slavery. Would you argue that they were off for being a 'bloc' for the Republican party back then when it was clear that out of all available options, that party seemed to be the one that most adequately represented black needs?
Whic brings us to the transition. There was obviously something the Republican party was NOT doing to have virtually a whole people group shift to democrat.
Now we have an issue where the Republicans have demonstrated a disdain for the black voter, even though most blacks ARE WAITING for a reason to reject the democrats but the Republicans never give them that reason.
So like every other bloc they vote with the party that they feel at least as a token will consider doing something for them.
It is natural, normal, and rational in a political setting.
People vote for what THEY THINK (not what necessarily is) is in their own best interest.
That implicitely means that everyone votes from a theory perspective of getting a handout.
Figure it this way to Beau, when corporations lobby, and fund candidates they do it with the exceptation that they will have legislation that works in their favor, or get a tax break, etc.
When blacks vote, we vote with the perspective that the Democrats out of the two parties give us the best shot of creating change for our condition as a people.
Now I disagree with that assertation, as I believe both parties abuse us in different ways, and that is why I rejected parties, and labels such as conservative or liberal (even though I did once call myself a conservative) as both of those constructs were designed for the white majority and have demonstrated an ineffeciency in reducing wholesale black disparity, particularly in the inner city.
Democrats had control since the 50's & 60's...relatively little change, Republicans had control recently (last ten years or so) relatively no change.
We must consider what is in the best interest of US and reject parties that are designed for the 'majority' because that is what bi-partisan politics is all about.

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1 Comments:
"What exactly are you considering a hand out? When a corporation lobbies on behalf of a particular candidate because they know that candidate will give them or companies like them tax breaks, for whatever reason, how is that materially different than blacks voting for a candidate because they legitimately belief Affirmative Action is necessary to correct or at least control racist practices? You assign negativity to individuals who vote for folks who they feel have there best interest in mind. LIKE EVERYONE ELSE."
Well, I don't think that it's cool for corporations to do that. In essence, they are buying the politician to get what they want which will work in their favor. It's just a bribe in reverse. This is why I like it when politicians do not accept lobbying from special interest groups. It shows they are against this concept. However, it just shows it, doesn't necessarily prove it. But the point is - they are both wrong. I think the intention was to help out a politician that already represented what you viewed, not to make the politician reprsent your view. I believe blacks have their heart in the right place, we just haven't made the right choice for a solution. I think we can solve a lot of our problems (which I do believe exist) through a better vessel than something as BS as AA. And it's unfair. And to be honest. What about poor whites? I want a person hired because of the best of their ability - no matter what color, not cause of a quota. I want my doctor or mechanic to have been hired because they kick ass, not because of a diversity policy in human resources. I think both are wrong and aren't actually pursuing the greater good of man and americans. I also believe blacks have the potential to get ahead autonomously and that by doing otherwise we are saying we are unable to pull our own. Jews, Koreans, Persians, they all stick together and come here with language/communication/cultural barriers but all seem to prosper as a collective whole - but yet, for some reason, we can't. Education.
"You attempt to define what everyone else does from a negative perspective when it comes to blacks. WE VOTE for people who we think represent OUR interest, by default this means we assign them proxy status for things we believe should be done in government. That is the foundational premis of a democratic system and when it comes to blacks folks WE ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN ANYONE ELSE in this regard."
That's because I do have a negative perspective on the situation. I see my people being misused and abused and they don't even know it. The liberals have done a good job at seperating the parties to such an extent that it's not an uncommon thing for blacks to think that the republican party represents the rich and whites and is against the poor and the non-white. That's simply UNTRUE. It's another lie from propaganda propagated by the leftist pigs. Whites don't vote or join a party because it represents their race and their special interests/needs based on race. They look at the concepts and what's "right" for the situation or issue. Or at least, they try to. Blacks generally go for democrats because they are told it's the party for blacks. Which it is not. It would be one thing if it was true - but it's twice as bad because the libs don't give a shit about blacks, just black votes.
I'm for blacks prospering - believe me, I want to see that more than anything. But favoritism is bad. We need to get passed this black/white thing and start looking at everyone as equals - blacks just don't need help, all the poor and uneducated. America's poor needs help. Not just blacks.
"I ma not sure where you are coming from. The purpose of holding an ideological position as a group is to leverage power to execute that ideology in the public domain through legislation. Look at your example. If the groups ideological position is that abortion on demand should be public policy and that anyone who wants one should be able to get one through the state, is the natural extension of ideology pushed through public policy by leveraging the power of a bloc vote. That is not a false cousin, that is the natural way of things."
It is the part about the state that I don't agree with. I don't want to pay for someone elses abortion. I am against it being legal - which, again, is one thing, but I also don't want to have to frickin pay for it. If you want it legal because you plan on utilizing this luxury then you should be able to pay for the procedure. If it's medically necessary due to life thereatining issues, no worries. But just because you don't feel like having a baby or because of irresponsibility I shouldn't have to pay for YOUR mistake... That's a handout for the poor. It's a hand out for the people who want abortions, but also don't want to pay for it. If it wasn't a govt. program like planned parent hood, then it wouldn't be a hand out. What is the reason abortion has to be publicly funded? or state run/legislated? When someone gets aids, that's not publicly funded. In fact, if you can't pay for it you end up dying - but no, you wanna get rid of the fruits of one hot night, of your own fuck up, we, the citizens are responsible to cover that. I have an idea - get a fucking IED or Get on the pill or actually USE condoms!?!? What's the problem? It's false representation designed to get a vote (not the concept of pro-choice, but the actual implementation of a govt aided program for free abortions).
"Yes, ideological and moral concepts translated through legislative action. Materially you have the same common denominator as anyone who wants something to occur through legislative action. You want your 'ideology and morality' applied through legislative activity by the person who represents your voice via proxy."
Yes, I want help for black people. I don't want fake help. I want us to prosper with the right tools. Not to be given a slight ease or break, while never truly getting ahead as a whole. Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. We need to be taught. We need education. Then we won't need such programs as Affirmative Action, we won't need food stamps we won't need any of this govt shit. We won't be dependant on specialized and race specific govt programs to "help" us get through life - or make it easier for us to cope in America. I mean, sure, some still might - but, nothing is ever 100%.
"Let's take AA for instance which you incorrectly labeled a hand out. Many believe that ideologically and morally Affirmative Action is the correct legislative reaction to historic racist practices. How is that any different from someone who ideologically and morally believes homosexual marriage shouldn't occur?"
A "reaction" sure, it's natural, is it truly, truly good for man, americans, blacks in general? No. It is not. It's a reaction, not a solution. It's emotionally charged and not born from proper rational and reasoning. It is also unfair to others who have worked hard to get there. And yes, we were screwed by the denial of education and unfair practices prior to the civil rights success but the current programs do nothing. They've been around now for a while and they haven't proved to do anything positive but prove to cause more dependancy. We need real solutions that will also help others, not just limited to people of color - while still allowing blacks equality and a chance. I'm for humanity and truly look at this world from color blind goggles. It's not hard to do. We Americans can implement a solution that hepls all. If we can crack german code and build nuclear devices we can figure out a solution to the current situations. Instead of throwing money at free abotions, maybe they should throw the tax revenue at helping poor schools and throw money at the school districts that have a grave need for it!
"No and that is actually disrespectful of your people. I don't mean to sound redundant, but politics is a quid pro quo (or should be, as blacks we don't get back what we give) relationship. I give you MY vote so you can represent ME and my wishes in office. Subtract context from it, and it is really irrelevant as to WHAT I want from you, only that the nature of POLITICS is quid pro quo. It is inescapable. What is more damaging than so-called handouts, which you still haven't really defined, is big corporate lobby money. "
It's not disrespectful to my people because I was talking about all Americans, not only blacks. Hand outs are just not cool or equal. Favoritism is inherently exclusive. To exclude anyone is to favor seperetism. Seperatism is exactly what the blacks of the civil rights era and prior were trying to get rid of. Farrakahn is trying to bring back - or would like to. It's not I give you my vote so you can represent me (well, the libs have done a good job of manipulating the process into that by subscribing to the uneducated). It's supposed to be - wow, YOU represent ME so therefore, I shall support you. You are aligned wit ME. Not, hey - I'm gonna vote for you, but you gotta kick me or my people down some cool benefits in return. That's what corrupt govt.'s and nations do. That's what paper politicians do. This is the reason why many 3rd world countries can't get their shit together.
"There is no intrinsic right to freedom, read the bible, especially since you assign it to God. Our founders create a premise, a paradigm for a democratic system routed in a philosophical belief. It is created and it is man controlled. When man, through politics, wanted blacks to be 'free' we became 'free'. We supported the Pubs precisely because THEY REPRESENTED US or what we felt was in our best interest THE SAME AS EVERYONE ELSE. We didn't fail morally in half a generation when we switched to Democrat primarily because of the New Deal, which is what you are inherently saying in your whole argument. We switched to Democrat because WE COLLECTIVELY FELT that the democrats would better serve OUR INTEREST. "
There is an intrinsic right to freedom. This world is here for everyone whether created from divine reasoning or from scientific principles this world is here for us ALL. Black, white, Buddist, Atheist, American, Italian, etc... no matter what sort of class systems labelers can throw you into - it all comes back to one - we are a human of this world and this world belongs to no one man or group from a secular point of view or not. God, in the old testament which is judaism, said it was ok to have slaves, but in the sense of an indentured servant. Not in the means you oppress an entire race and commmit crimes charged by hate and fear. He also said every man is created equal. We supported the pubs not simply and only because it was in our best interest... but because that was a huge and fundamentally wrong and fucked up situation that was imposed on us. Now, the ability and potential is here and any black man can theoretically make it. It's just they don't have the tools to do so.
Scientifically you may be right, after all, evolutionists who look at speciation and the origin of man would consider blacks to be closer to monkeys on the totem pole, so therefore, sure, in that light - maybe your statement can be viewed as true. Maybe evolutionists theory can support that there is no intrinsic right to freedom because might makes right and everything is run by man and therefore, the man in power is not the man in the wrong. However, I disagree. So do republicans. We believe EVERY man is equal and has an intrinsic right to be free. It's partially why we attempted to liberate Iraq in desert storm. It's why we went into Mogadisha. It's actually why the Republican party was founded in the first place. To free the blacks (and maybe to get some votes too lol) No, we didn't fail then - but we are close to failing now. Back then, the democratic party wasn't submarined and sabotaged by people with forked tongues, false profits who's agendas are truly other than helping minorities and the poverty stricken. MLK and JFK among others would turn in their graves if they saw what the democratic party has become.
"My logic is perfect. Logically, I am going to vote for the person I feel is most likely to be able to a) be elected, and b) execute my will via proxy. By voting party, in this dichotomistic two party system I am saying that the odds of a democrat being able to be elected and simultaneously represent my interest are higher than a publican, and a third party with virtually no chance of being elected. "
Sorry, I didn't mean your logic... it was fine - I was referring to the process that is subscribed to by blacks and others today in choosing to align themselves with a party. and maybe I should have used the word reasoning instead of logic...
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